Kim Hill interviews historian and writer Dr Michael King at the time of the release of his acclaimed book The Penguin History of New Zealand, in 2003 (the year before King's death). King talks about his optimism about Māori and Pākehā relations. He says one of the reasons he writes books is because "information dissolves prejudice". He offers a theory that you can have two indigenous peoples in one country - that Māori are our first people and Pākehā are our second people.